Comments for State of the Church

Comment on The Shepherding Movement by tom

tom — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:15:01 +0000

If you look back at the actual{repentance}they didnt renounce,or admit any doctrinal error.They only appologised for the leaders that abused people.

Comment on Apostolic Movements by thinkingriddles

thinkingriddles — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:44:15 +0000

Nelson, Great question. You are right that many have argued that the key difference between Apostolic networks and denominations is whether it is “relationship based” or “doctrine based.” In my experience most apostolic networks are built around a strong personality. This means they rise and fall with the person. When the person falls, moves on or dies, it becomes something else. This may actually be OK. It means that churches feel more free to “follow the cloud” of God’s leading at the time.

For example, many of the guys now following Bill Johnson and Bethel are guys that originally followed John Wimber in the Vineyard. They feel free to go with what they see God doing now. To the extent that Apostolic Networks promote organic “bottom up” activity, they promote freedom and growth. To the extent that they promote control by a single leader I think they can slow growth, in just the same way that a denomination slows growth by instituting a hierarchy.

Comment on What the Devil Says by anonymous

anonymous — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:15:58 +0000

thank you. my voice is the most manipulating evil little creep. he is just the worst. i used to think it was god as he said he was. he played many things, GOD SATIN DEVIL DEMON LUCIFER and more. i believed they were all different and now i am my head is messed up. i am a final year UNI student and i graduate in 3 days i cant have this. its is pure evil and until i read your page i though he was bad, mean, manipulating but now i see his manipulation in the real light.

thank you

i will strive to ignore, that’s really all i can do even the church cant get rid of it.

Comment on Apostolic Movements by Nelson

Nelson — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:37:23 +0000

It is really interesting. The Apostolic Network Vs Denomination thing. Should we further probe into it? Is it just the difference of gathering around a “thing” (statement of faith or purpose)? Or is there more to it?
Can anyone answer please?

Comment on Biblical Basis of Covering in the Shepherding Movement by Nathan

Nathan — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:09:39 +0000

Thinkingriddles;

I’m sorry my friend if I gave the wrong impression, I read your post and understood it. I was agreeing with your post and responding to some of the fellows above who were complaining (it seemed) about that sort of environment and yet not leaving it.

I was unfortunate enough to go to one of these churches for a long period of time. The deal is if you miss the Sundays when they explain their theory of authority you are left scratching your head when a member (a musician) says something like, “I can’t release another CD of our music because pastor so-and-so says I shouldn’t”. The lay person is personally responsible to God for their own deeds and decisions, therefore I don’t see how anyone else gets to make their decisions for them. I do believe in Godly counsel, but this is way beyond that. I am always amazed when someone thinks the Lord wants them to abandon their free will in favor of some self styled “anointed” person.

This a pernicious problem in the institutional church which I equate with the deeds of the Nicolaitans in the Revelation of St. John, which of course has been a problem in the church for about two thousand years. In the comment above I was trying to put a different angle on the argument against shepherding-covering in a way which most protestant charismatics may not have thought of.

I apologize if I offended you.

Nathan

Comment on Biblical Basis of Covering in the Shepherding Movement by thinkingriddles

thinkingriddles — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:27:32 +0000

8ahtan — is you read my post completely you will fi.d that 3 am not pro-covering either

Comment on Biblical Basis of Covering in the Shepherding Movement by Nathan

Nathan — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 06:07:50 +0000

I’m sorry, but this whole covering, authority thing smacks of the roman catholic church’s idea of priesthood. In this concept the priests are professional saints, they are holier than the laity, and as the “spiritual authority” in their parishes they are to be courted and obeyed like some little potentate.
They used to insist on the reservation of the cup (only the priests were allowed to drink the wine) in Holy Communion as a symbol of their superiority, this has since been removed, but I visited a catholic church about a year and a half ago and although the cup was offered to the lay people many of them, more than two-thirds, refused it in deference to the supposed superiority of the priests.
If we are not careful this is what awaits our abuse of the authority which is after all God given. In other words if God hasn’t clearly given the powers these men insist on, don’t even think about it turn heel and run out the door. Then get on your knees and ask Him to guide you. If you can read and understand scripture, and you can humbly and honestly go before the Lord and listen to what He tells you, then you do not need some religious mucky-muck who doesn’t even know your name to be your go-between with God.

Seek Him

Comment on A Christian Counseling Model by thinkingriddles

thinkingriddles — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:30:08 +0000

I really don’t. I had a conversation with a pastor about it recently, but I haven’t done their training or anything to really know the details. I think it is a modified version of deliverance/inner healing.

Comment on A Christian Counseling Model by jerry bolton

jerry bolton — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:01:20 +0000

Do you know anything about SOZO that Bethel and many others use?

Comment on The Shepherding Movement by Erich Aseltine

Erich Aseltine — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:27:40 +0000

Thank you Thinkingriddles,

My family and I are still walking with the Lord. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of my life. He is God. We are going to a Foursquare Pentecostal Church, The Church on the Way in Santa Clarita.
There is one other comment that I would like to make about what went wrong with the Shepherding Movement. Now, the minister that was the head pastor of this church, Faith Fellowship, had to correct the abuses of the church. The church membership went down to a home church that I stayed with for 24 years, until the head Pastor moved to N. Carolina a couple years ago. They actually still believe in deliverance and many of the main points of the Shepherding Movement. I am not writing this from the perspective of having no knowlege, experience, or completely anti-Shepherding movement. I know that there was major abuses.

* The personal experience that was very wrong, although, I was able to survive from it relates to your following comment:

In summary, the Shepherds were right right to raise the issue of authority, but they were wrong about submission to other men. Christ is Lord of all, and each should be in submission to Him by the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

The King/Slave relationship I was relating is related to a spirit of Anti-Christ that became part of that movement.

* One day, (a long time ago), there was a class called for those who wanted to seek salvation. One of the elder came up to me and yelled in my ear, “Fool! You really are the Fool!” He was immediately told to stop it, this was not a true accusation, it was from the accuser of the brethren. I was a Christian, just shaken in my faith.
The next week I fasted, and prayed. The Lord spoke to me and said, “Do not worry what other people think of you regarding your salvation. Worry about what I think regarding your salvation.” I have had complete assurance regarding my salvation since that moment the LORD spoke to me.
I’m not judging others involved in the Shepherding Movement, but the Bible says, “Whosoever calls his brother a fool is in danger of hell fire.” Better be careful when you tell someone they are a fool or not saved.